tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37583332747236920.post7574247642885385998..comments2023-09-27T16:07:50.948+01:00Comments on (Drawing) Rings Around The World: Cycling: It's not as simple as 'going Dutch'Jimhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04831368698879583744noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37583332747236920.post-69126355241697192042011-01-23T20:06:30.590+00:002011-01-23T20:06:30.590+00:00"I don't see why we should use that argum..."I don't see why we should use that argument against building safe infrastructure for bicyclists"<br /><br />Great, neither do I.<br /><br />"I say start with a small dedicated network (if politically feasible), and build on that."<br /><br />Well yes, political feasibility is kind of what I was driving at.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831368698879583744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37583332747236920.post-44725015571154417532011-01-23T19:56:13.005+00:002011-01-23T19:56:13.005+00:00I agree with ndru: "If no one asks we will ne...I agree with ndru: "If no one asks we will never get it".<br /><br />If pedestrians didn't have dedicated space on our streets, then you'd probably see a lot less people walking too. I would never use that argument against building safe space for pedestrians, so I don't see why we should use that argument against building safe infrastructure for bicyclists.<br /><br />I'm glad you linked to that video too, because if anything, it tells me that things don't happen overnight. The Netherlands has been working on building their bicycling infrastructure for many decades, so it takes time. I say start with a small dedicated network (if politically feasible), and build on that. <br /><br />That's what we're trying to do here in Toronto - and we're dealing with a similar political landscape to the UK (I think).<br /><br />Cheers,<br />JamesJames D. Schwartzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04454437680686627778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37583332747236920.post-82448052994639661912011-01-23T10:20:13.451+00:002011-01-23T10:20:13.451+00:00Jim - I am very happy that you are not against dut...Jim - I am very happy that you are not against dutch style infrastructure. I am also sure that hardly anyone (even freewheeler) is against 20mph zones, strict liability and so one. However all these "non revolutionary" solutions are a nice addition - not the solution. I think you see it too. The thing most people get worked up about is the fact is the either-or situation. Hierarchy of provisions for instance. Or the fact that we actually have to wait to ask for separated cycle tracks. Why not ask for everything at the same time. Start asking now. If no one asks we will never get it. <br />Thanks for writing Camden council!ndruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15324118775089929952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37583332747236920.post-7844218267685780472011-01-23T10:05:49.653+00:002011-01-23T10:05:49.653+00:00One more thing. Don't assume that just because...One more thing. Don't assume that just because I support smaller-scale reforms I don't also support segregated cycle lanes. I've just sent a response to Camden's transport strategy arguing strongly in favour of both. It's this destructive idea that you have to be for one or the other which I'm against.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831368698879583744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37583332747236920.post-42684986688108628932011-01-23T10:01:49.306+00:002011-01-23T10:01:49.306+00:00"Wow, is this another reason why we will not ..."Wow, is this another reason why we will not get separate infrastructure in UK?"<br /><br />No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying, again, is that to have a good chance of winning what is an essentially political argument, we need to have a large constituency of support. Being 'right' clearly isn't enough, unfortunately. There are various non-revolutionary policies out there which will increase the number of cyclists, hopefully to the point where we can use the weight of numbers to win the argument for more separate infrastructure. These policies include things like 20mph zones, cycle training, contraflows, strict liability, etc - just the kind of thing which people like Freewheeler have been energetically attacking, which is what really prompted my original comment on Cycalogical's post.<br /><br />In general, I would encourage people to think about what I'm saying rather than jumping to conclusions based on pre-conceived 'us against them' campaign orthodoxy.<br /><br />"we will never get more people riding bikes without dedicated tracks"<br /><br />That's just not true, in fact in Central London we already have seen many more people riding bikes with zero provision of new dedicated tracks.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04831368698879583744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37583332747236920.post-9138193650871834932011-01-23T09:51:50.974+00:002011-01-23T09:51:50.974+00:00Wow, is this another reason why we will not get se...Wow, is this another reason why we will not get separate infrastructure in UK? I wish some people were as resourceful when it came to lobbying for it. Then we would beat NL in a year. We've seen it all - no space, too old, to new, no will... and so on. <br />Seriously though - if you think that we won't get good infrastructure because we don't have enough people riding bikes then let's give up right now, because we will never get more people riding bikes without dedicated tracks. VC has reached it's capacity for encouraging cycling. The rest of the population aren't interested in risking anything if they can conveniently hop into a car and drive on a nice, extensive and prioritised network of segregated roads.ndruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15324118775089929952noreply@blogger.com